10 March 2015

Talking Out The Dead: "Remember"


Kelen: Welcome to Alexandria. And true to Aaron’s word, the place is indeed safe. And it even has a politician running it! So far so good. A good looking lady cuts Rick’s hair (RIP Homeless Beard), awesome. Apparently, Judith will be the most popular baby on the block… because she’s the only baby in town. Good for her! Everyone got jobs! Daryl refused to bathe! Carl made some friends! Rick and Carl got to kill some walkers but had to go outside of Alexandria’s walls to do it because it’s such a safe place! The group stayed together in 1 house! Rick and Michonne were made constables! And Rick says that if the people of Alexandria aren’t strong enough to make it, the group will just take Alexandria! Wait, what?

You were definitely right about there being people in Alexandria that would have an issue with Rick and the Daryls. Between Enid running off by herself, Jessie’s husband Pete’s “warm” welcome to Rick, and Nicholas and Aiden almost getting Tara killed, there seems to be plenty of conflict to keep our heroes busy. Shots in the dark: Carl reminds Enid of either a dead family member or a dead boyfriend. I hope she dies before she gets Carl hurt somehow.

I think Pete and Jessie do not have a happy marriage and Rick’s arrival instantly made him competition in his eyes. And is this the same Pete who Aaron suggested operate on Noah’s leg? Cause if so, PLEASE LET HIM DO IT SO NOAH DIES.

And the Nicholas and Aiden conflict, how is it still okay for anyone to be dumb enough to let walkers live? Who cares if it killed your friends, it’s a walker, PUT IT DOWN. I loved how Glenn was able to knock Aiden down a few pegs and how quickly the whole group was ready to jump him. The only bad thing is that we know Aiden is a vengeful fellow, so more than likely, he’s going to be plotting on getting Glenn back.

One thing I like about Alexandria, it doesn’t seem too perfect. Like Woodbury, you just knew something was going to go down, before the Governor killed all those soldiers. Aside from the obvious people that I just talked about, I haven’t been given any reason to think there’s some other shoe that will drop. Maybe that’s what the writers want, or maybe I’m sick of seeing the group on the road and starving.

I also like how Deanna debriefed the group so to speak. Seeing how they each reacted to what they’ve been through up to Alexandria was pretty great and Rick’s opening conversation with her was the best. And Glenn saying that they were almost out there too long feels like foreshadowing for some reason. Could they have been out there for too long already? For a reason that hasn’t been revealed yet?

I’d have to say one of my favorite parts of this episode, other than Rick and Carl getting to take out their frustrations on some walkers, was Carol. Did you see how “tough” it was for her to get her gun off her shoulder? Or how she was the den mother of the group and she wanted to be back in the kitchen so desperately? I love the fact that she’s downplaying how bad ass she’s become. That will be an asset down the road.

They’re also teasing the crap out of Rick hooking up with someone at this point. First it was Jessie, before we learned she had a husband (I’m pretty sure she failed to mention that when she introduced herself) and then it was Michonne not being able to sleep at the same time as Rick. If they had started to go at it like animals, it wouldn’t have surprised me.

What else? I feel like so much happened in this episode but there wasn’t too much to be honest. I’m guessing Enid, Nicholas, or Aiden found Rick’s gun he stashed. Or Aaron went back and got it after he made sure everyone would be in Woodbury long enough for him to do so. A slightly shady thing to do, but as Rick kept pointing out, he doesn’t know Rick and the Daryls. Even if I trusted them enough to come into Alexandria and become a part of the community, I wouldn’t want a random gun stashed outside our walls for anyone to find.

As for Rick saying that they’d just take control of Alexandria, that was a very Governor like statement. They’ve made parallels between Rick and the Governor/Philip/Brian before but this is the first time we’ve really seen it since he’s died. Does this mean that all those times I defended Rick were for nothing, as he has slowly been losing his grip and turning into the very thing he hated the most since the outbreak began? Was he saying they’d take over peacefully? Because we all know there’s no such thing as a peaceful rebellion. Any way you slice it, there were no good intentions in Rick’s statement, and that just worries me. Because if Rick starts taking over places and doing Governor like things, that means he’s a bad guy.

And we all know that bad guys end up dead on The Walking Dead.

Thomas: I will say I did notice how Carol is the “den mother”.  I also noticed how she said that the group protected her while she just liked to cook and clean.  Notice how she mentioned how much she had loved missed her husband… old what’s his name?  Seriously, she seemed to be laying it on pretty thick how weak and helpless she is.  Think Deanna was fooled in the interview?  I’m not a hundred percent sure.

Okay, Daryl, I know he is a wild man.  However, taking a bath won’t hurt anything.  I know he has an image to keep but maybe he is taking it too far.  Seriously though, I’m thinking he is not getting too comfortable.  After Beth’s death he has distanced himself from the group.  Perhaps he doesn’t want to get close to anyone else in the town or rest on his laurels.  It could be a bit of foreshadowing.

I will agree with you that Alexandria doesn’t seem as perfect as Woodbury.  Pete might not be welcoming, or perhaps he just doesn’t trust Rick and the group.  It wouldn’t surprise me that there is going to be some tension.  Aaron had to have relayed how he met up with the group and what they all went through.  I’m actually surprised anyone but Aaron and Deanna have had much to do with the entire group.

Aiden seems like a douche.  It is a good thing that he realizes and owes up to it.  I did like how he said Glenn wasn’t ready to make runs and do that job.  A little amusing considering how long Glenn has been the go to guy for getting supplies.

Think there will be any hard feelings between Aiden and Glenn?  Nah, I think they will shake hands next episode and be the best of friends.  The fact that Glenn put him on his ass in front of a lot of the town isn’t going to make Aiden want revenge at all.

Okay seriously, it is obvious Aiden is sort of the “alpha” of Alexandria.  He is the one giving orders when they are outside.  He is in charge of the weapons.  He expects the group to listen to him on runs or they won’t “survive”.  Dude, I think Glenn just moved up on my list of who is next on the chopping block.

I’m not saying that Aiden is going to murder him.  However, I see a situation where Glenn is in trouble.  Aiden can be in a position to help.  Then he doesn’t quite give his all to help Glenn.  I may be wrong, but this is sort of the set up I’m seeing being laid out before the season ends.  My question, is this going to be the big finale kill?  If it is, I can say I won’t be surprised.

Carl and Enid.  I’m not sure why but I’m seriously not liking the girl.  Young men do stupid things to impress or even get the attention of young women.  I think it’s safe to say that its been a while since Carl has seen a girl close to his age.  That mixed with the fact of his growing up, I’m thinking he’s going to be doing something stupid.

I’m not a hundred percent sure I trust her either.  Why is she leaving the city walls?  I know why Rick left.  I know why Carl left, to follow Enid.  She took a pack out as well.  Could she have something to do with one of the exiles Deanna mentioned?  She said in her talk with Rick that she had to put three men outside the walls.  Perhaps Enid is connected to them in some way.  It just left me scratching my head thinking about it.  What do you think?

The comment, that was a harsh way to end the show.  Rick was stone cold, almost as cold as when he killed Gareth.  A thought, notice how he only said that to Carol and Daryl.  Does the group have its own, mini-council for tough decisions?

I’m not going to say I told you so, mainly because I wanted you to be right about Rick.  What Rick said, how he said it, did feel like the Governor.  That is how it happens though.  A bit at a time.  Maybe Glenn was right, maybe they were on the outside too long.  This is something I’m going to have to mull over some more.

One final thought.  I know you want them to get together, Rick and Michonne.  However, notice she wasn’t involved in the last scene?  I’m seeing more than a little distrust there.  Does Rick trust her to do what is right in his mind for his family?  Perhaps he has a reason too, as she is completely sold on Alexandria it seems.  It is a lot to think about and take in.  I’m going to kick it back to you what do you think.

Kelen: I think Rick is starting to distrust her, good point. Not to the point of thinking he has to kill her, but she is rather taken with Alexandria. I think he still trusts her with Carl and Judith but I don’t think he trusts her to “do what has to be done right now”, and that could hurt the group as a whole if they have to take Alexandria.

The main reason I’ve defended Rick over and over is because we already saw him have a mental breakdown in season 3. Why would the writers have him lose it all over again just 2 seasons later? Taking the route of him taking on characteristics of the Governor is an entirely new telling of Rick “losing it” though, so they’ve found a loophole in my theory. Carol and Daryl seemed all in for everything Rick was saying up to that final line, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they agreed with what he said. Didn’t a wise man once say, “You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain”? That’s what we could be seeing playing out here. And if Rick is also keeping the big decisions between himself, Carol, and Daryl, a mini secret council is exactly what we have on our hands.

I completely forgot about those three people that Deanna exiled outside of Alexandria’s walls. Considering that Enid hasn’t exactly been forthcoming, that doesn’t mean that she wasn’t with one of those exiles before she got to Alexandria. She could be the sole reason one or all of them are still alive. Or the exiles have Rick’s gun and are slowly trying to figure out a way to take Alexandria themselves with Enid’s help! You just gave me 10 more reasons not to trust this broad. And hormone fueled Carl is going to get stuck in the middle somehow.

While I really don’t think Aiden will kill Glenn, I do see him causing him some kind of trouble in the future. Even the idea of him not helping Glenn is far-fetched at this point because Glenn will no longer trust him. When Tara came within seconds of getting bitten, all bets were off. I don’t think we’ll see him come back for his revenge immediately though, as I’m thinking this will come into play by the season finale.

I do have to agree with you though, I think Glenn is the big finale kill as well. I mean, the last big character to get killed was Hershel in the middle of last season (sorry Beth and Tyreese; while your deaths were meaningful, there was no knee jerk reaction like when the Greene patriarch was beheaded). And if the group is really as “safe” as Alexandria seems to be, there has to be extra motivation for them not to become weak besides their constant paranoia of their new surroundings.

I think Daryl and Carol both have the same mentality that they won’t be in Alexandria for long. So this is why Carol is downplaying her skills (which I think Deanna is totally buying. I didn’t know she was taking acting classes since the apocalypse broke out in her spare time!) so that she can get the drop on their new friends if need be. Daryl’s major malfunction beyond Beth and Tyreese is probably the fact that he’s never been in a neighborhood this nice. Sure, the group has pretty much broken him of all the bad habits Merle taught him, but if you’re used to having nothing and then a whole house is just given to you? It’s a concept that’s probably hard for him to wrap his head around, even harder than the idea of the dead walking and trying to kill him at all times.

Kill Watch
Tara
Noah
Gabriel
Eugene
Glenn
Carol
Sasha

Thomas: I’m glad we agree on the mini-council idea, because that is how it seems to be shaping up.  I agree Rick isn’t against Michonne enough to kill her.  However, he sees that she is completely taken by Alexandria.  I think he would still trust her with Carl and Judith’s life.  I think you hit the hammer on the head.  Rick doesn’t trust Michonne to make the hard choices for survival.  Yes, this could play a factor in the final episodes I’m afraid.

I’m not going to agree or disagree with the whole Glenn and Aiden thing.  You brought up some good points.  However, I feel like Aiden is a kid pretending to be a man.  I brought up the whole alpha dog big leader thing in my earlier comments.  I just see that becoming a problem.  It looks like we both agree Glenn could be the big finale kill.

It will be sad if it is.  It will be mostly sad because we will have seen it coming.  Glenn has been a good character.  However on and off he has never been one I truly liked or hated.  The fact that the show doesn’t throw us a curve for the finale will definitely hurt more than seeing Glenn on the chopping block.  Sorry Glenn, just the way I feel.  I am holding out hope that the show will throw me for a loop and take someone I totally don’t expect.  Once again, it would have to be a big character to really hit me hard though.

I’m still interested in seeing what Deanna will do about Daryl.  It is obvious he isn’t comfortable and never had much even before TWD.  She looks at him several times in the episode with a mixture of curiosity and fear.  Perhaps Daryl will make an exit of the show for awhile.  I bring this up again because the group is still pretty large.  They have also introduced more characters just making the group larger and more dynamic.  While this is a good thing, in some ways it is worse because it complicates the story.  Are we seeing Daryl take a hiatus?  Perhaps he will leave Alexandria on a hunt and not come back until next season.  I just don’t see him being on the chopping block.

Sorry for making you hate Enid more man, not that you didn’t like her from the start.  I just think she is acting fishy.  I will say that her with one of the exiles seems possible.  Perhaps it isn’t that sinister.  However, when is it not sinister when a character acts shifty in TWD?  You are also right, hormone driven Carl is going to screw up bad I think.  The question is what are the consequences going to be?

You bring up Rick’s breakdown which is a valid point.  However, I don’t see this as a mental breakdown of the character.  I think what is being shown is a sort of personality shift.  This is brought on by the things the group has been through and what Rick has had to do personally.

This shift could be similar to what Rick went through when he wasn’t trusting anyone new but the group that was already in the prison.  However, I think that this is a more extreme example.  I guess I haven’t been helping because I have used terms like, “losing it” when trying to describe his actions.  I don’t think Rick is losing his mind per se.  I think he is losing or has lost his ability to see any hope.

I mean he has hope for survival.  He knows that he is capable of doing what he thinks is necessary for him and the group to survive.  However, I listened to the interview that Rick gave to Deanna a second time.  It was actually a very telling scene.  He sounds like a man who doesn’t trust anyone.  In a way, he is almost amazed that Deanna and the people of Alexandria brought them into their walls.  He mentions things like everyone is looking for an angle.  The only use people have in the world is what you can take from them.

Psychologically this is an extreme version of a pessimistic, cynical and survivalist mentality.  Mix that in with a, “them vs us” or “family vs strangers” complex and it describes Rick pretty well.  In the interview and the episode it seemed that Deanna had hope for a future.  The way that she talked reminded me of Hershel giving advice to Rick right before he became farmer Rick.  The thing is that in the prison, Rick seemed to get a little hope for the future.  Since then, it is obvious that comforting words of a future no longer move him like Hershel’s did.

Is this wrong?  I know we both are a bit chilled by how his last words seemed evil.  I’m going the route of survivalist talk.  I said it happens a bit at a time, and the audience has watched Rick’s transformations throughout the entire show.  I don’t think he has hit the point of declaring himself the dictator of Alexandria.  However, if he thinks it takes some killing to keep his group safe, he is willing and able to kill every person in Alexandria who tries to fight.

According to Rick, the people of Alexandria are them.  They aren’t to be trusted.  This is something that I have to admit, makes sense.  The group has had problems with Woodbury, Terminus and at Grady Memorial Hospital.  Every group it seems has wanted to hurt or take from Rick’s family.  Why should Alexandria be any different in his mind?

After watching and seeing Rick throughout the show, he is becoming one of my favorite characters.  I know a lot of people are bored with him or tired of him.  I know I have gotten tired of him.  However, when looking back, he is a character that seems real.  He adapts, changes, gets depressed, gets moments of happiness, and seems to learn from mistakes and tries to forge ahead.

Is he evil?  Again that is a question I’m not sure is completely black and white.  When listening to his final words I shuddered and had thoughts of him and the Governor standing side by side.  I would like to point out, that the Governor wasn’t wholly evil.  He was driven to protect the people that trusted him.  It is easier saying it now looking back but still remains true.

I have talked enough about Rick.  Let’s just say things aren’t black and white in TWD world.  Good people do horrible things to survive.  On the flip side we have seen people we consider evil do things of great compassion for ones they love or care for (The main characters I’m thinking of are Shane and Merle to be specific).  I just think we are going to have to wait and see how this plays out with Rick.

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